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Messages - mjg

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1
David Jones weighs in on the subject. 

http://www.pennlive.com/sports/index.ssf/2014/07/big_12_commish_bob_bowlsby_ret.html#incart_m-rpt-1

I think this is a poor argument though:

Quote
If players aren't employees, then Bowlsby's insinuation is, college athletics can't be a business. I mean, they are the product, are they not? When we watch the football and basketball games, we watch them.


By that logic, the shirt I buy at Macy's must be the employee since it's the product.  He does go on to say:

Quote
Everyone makes the money except the young men who produce the product. Great system, right? You'd try to protect it, too.
 

Instead of saying they ARE the product, he says they PRODUCE the product.  Big difference.  Football is the product, not the players.  The players produce the product.  By this logic, I tend to agree more with the argument that the players are "employees".  Although the $40,000 per year (give or take) they are paid in the form of a scholarship may or may not be enough compensation.  That is the real argument in my opinion.

2
OT / Re: OT's GONE WILD!
« on: Yesterday at 01:25 PM »
I know you won't respond to this because you just intentionally ignored it (like you do every single point in this thread that you have no good answer for), but I'm dying to know if you consider all those L. Ron Hubbard books I mentioned 'important works'?

Kid, when are you going to answer this?  I've been anxiously waiting. 

3
OT / Re: Jerry Sandusky - all relevant threads consolidated
« on: Yesterday at 01:22 PM »
Kid, based on your whacky thoughts on this case I suspect you of something. Does that mean I have to report you?  Stick to politics. You embarrass yourself -- your apparent disdain for spanier is the only reason you are participating in this conversation. And your "facts" need checked more closely. But that's how you operate, as others have pointed out in other threads.

I'm not a mandatory reporter. Spanier is, as is admin. Read the law. The only possibility is the one Lar pointed out, that the "child must come before them". But this is a slim reed. Suppose in a HS, a 12 year old is brought into a bathroom and molested. Now, HS staff are mandatory reporters. But because the child wasn't a student and maybe the molester wasn't an employee, does that mean if the principal is notified by someone seeing the incident, the principal doesn't have to report, because the "child didn't come before them?" Get serious, man.

The 800lb gorilla missing in most analysis that I see, is that admin, in any situation, is not allowed, under any circumstances, to handle it internally. Ever. Ever.  The HS situation I mentioned is a perfect example. Admin had no knowledge, other than several parents writing anonymous letters suggesting there was something going on. The coach and student looked a bit too cozy. Leaving the campus together(the girl was 15), in the car together, fooling around after practice, walking the halls together. And the girl started, despite being among the weakest of 12 players. Numerous letters were written over a period of months. Once apprised of this, admin has to report to child services, that parents had suspicion. Child services investigates. No foul, no penalty. Admin legally has to report, on suspicion, not conclusive evidence. Certainly letters have to be considered suspicion. Spanier failed this test. His emails are damning. You can't honestly state there was no suspicion. Look at his emails. It's not some wacky idea. My wife is in a school where this is an issue, child abuse, sexual abuse, parents in prison, parents on drugs, child neglect, broken homes, boyfriends abusive to children, children taken from parents by social services, etc. She was appalled at the support of Paterno in this. Not that he was guilty, but that the concern was misdirected. If anything, it confirmed what many thought, that football and his legacy was more important than child welfare, at least to some. 

Kid, I hate to say it, but Lar has you pegged.  You continue to take single anecdotes and make them the entire basis for your arguments. 

Comparing a HS situation to what happened at PSU is not going to cut it.  PSU is a University for adults (not children like a high school), and the child in question in 2001 was not in the care of the University -- he was the guest of a retired employee.  As Spanier was quoted saying "I never saw anything. I never spoke to a kid, a witness, a parent, Sandusky, McQueary, Paterno.”  Given that, and the way the law reads, explain again how he is a mandatory reporter?  You can't. 

As for your HS anecdote, you jump to conclusions there too.  "Suspicion of abuse has to be reported"?  Suspicion?  Based on what information?  That the coach started a kid who wasn't one of the best 5 players on the roster?  They hung out in the halls?  If every coach got investigated for starting a player that wasn't considered among the best, there wouldn't be anyone left willing to coach.  Last time the Sixers won a championship Billy Cunningham started Mark Iavaroni over Bobby Jones.  Jones' number hangs in the rafters today.  90% of Sixer fans probably couldn't tell you that Iavaroni was even on that team.  Should Cunningham have been investigated? 

Okay, maybe there was more smoke there than your post indicates.  But suspicion based on things that might seem creepy isn't enough suspicion in my opinion.  You need texts, emails, something more damning than just hanging around school together. 

You don't want the government involved in our lives, but you think anyone who helps out a kid should be investigated on the grounds that it's a bit creepy.  (I'm being extreme there to make a point).  You need to take a step back and reexamine what you are saying here.  99.99% of the time, this stuff is just someone trying to help out a kid.  If we reported all of that, we'd all be investigated and nobody would even attempt to help out children in need -- we'd need the government to be way overly involved. 

4
OT / Re: OT's GONE WILD!
« on: Yesterday at 07:13 AM »

Predictable. I can see it on these very pages. Who but the left censors people(or kills or imprisons them) when they don't like what they write or say? ;)

You didn't like Spanier's thesis and you've used that to form your opinion of him. It's not the same thing, but still a dangerous path. Get off your high horse dude. You aren't fooling us.

5
OT / Re: Jerry Sandusky - all relevant threads consolidated
« on: Yesterday at 07:03 AM »
Kid, based on your whacky thoughts on this case I suspect you of something. Does that mean I have to report you?  Stick to politics. You embarrass yourself -- your apparent disdain for spanier is the only reason you are participating in this conversation. And your "facts" need checked more closely. But that's how you operate, as others have pointed out in other threads.

6
OT / Re: OT's GONE WILD!
« on: July 20, 2014, 06:23 PM »
Predictable. I can see it on these very pages. Who but the left censors people(or kills or imprisons them) when they don't like what they write or say? ;)


Abraham Lincoln's admin censored and imprisoned some of his critics. Or was honest Abe a leftie?


According to this he was:

http://lefthand.wikia.com/wiki/Famous_left_handers

7
Penn State Basketball / Re: Give Pat a contract extension
« on: July 20, 2014, 11:44 AM »
Just saying that I want to see some of these kids play before I anoint them as the next whoever. Last kid we got that I felt great about was Taran. We all know how that turned out.

You have to be able to get these guys to come to your school before you can worry about them panning out. Let's get one thing done at a time.

Taran was the younger brother of our best player and the whole family moved to State College when he decided to join his brother. Hardly the same thing as landing Watkins and Reaves who have zero connection to the school.

Nothing about any of our commits makes me worry about them off the court.  Taran was a good player. He was just out of control off the court.

8
OT / Re: OT's GONE WILD!
« on: July 19, 2014, 07:17 AM »
I don't waste a lot of my time reading the work of crazy people, outside of your posts in this thread that is.  So no, I'm not well-versed in Rand's work because about 100 pages of that garbage was more than enough.  I haven't made it through Mein Kampf or the manifestos of most 21st century mass murderers either, you'll have to fill me in on the cliff notes of those sometime, too.

Quote
Atlas Shrugged is the #1 rated novel in the world as according to readers.


Which readers, exactly?  Probably the same people who rank Transformers movies the #1 in the world every summer.

And it's hilarious that you cite the Ivy League backgrounds of these guys as references for their credibility.  Isn't your buddy Krugman a Princeton prof? Plus a Yale and MIT grad?  Sorry if he doesn't meet your low-information standards. 

You never disappoint in your responses, I'll give you that.


I won't fault you, as apparently you don't read much, but Atlas Shrugged may be best selling novel of all time, in print over 60 years. But here's the list, I did say readers,so there you go. BTW, Krugman was pushed out of Princeton.

http://www.modernlibrary.com/top-100/100-best-novels/


Interesting lists. I've only read a few from both lists combined. Maybe I'll start reading some of these.

9
Penn State Basketball / Re: Thank you Timmy!
« on: July 18, 2014, 01:02 PM »
Is this a double elimination tournament?  I thought they got knocked out?

Consolation game.

10
Penn State Basketball / Re: Big Ten hoops news
« on: July 17, 2014, 09:26 PM »
Gunner Kiel

He's at Cincy now I think.

11
Penn State Basketball / Re: Give Pat a contract extension
« on: July 17, 2014, 01:23 PM »
To continue my previous post, look at this roster:

http://pennstatehoops.com/recruiting/scholarship_matrix.php?gradYear=2015

Every player on there is from an area we should be recruiting except Payton Banks (California) and maybe Devin Foster (Dayton, OH).  The rest are from PA or somewhere along the I95 corridor from northern VA to NYC.  That's something new to me as far as our team and I think that is a very good thing going forward if we can keep that momentum going.

12
OT / Re: OT: PSU Football
« on: July 17, 2014, 12:58 PM »

13
Penn State Basketball / Re: Give Pat a contract extension
« on: July 17, 2014, 12:57 PM »
I did a more in-depth search because I couldn't believe Izzo's. Turns out, his contract is such a foregone conclusion that it's not much of a story anymore. He's signed through 2019.

John Groce has gone 15-21 in the Big Ten in his two seasons, and there's talk he might get his second extension to bump him past 2018 with a raise.


That would mean every coach except Eddie Jordan has at least three more years left on their deals than Pat Chambers.  That needs addressed.

I get that he hasn't done much winning yet -- on the court.  But he's started to win recruiting battles and that will go a long way toward improving the product.  I'm with Dean Wormer on this.  Pat got hired pretty much past the late signing period (though he managed to get Newbill to transfer).  So he went into his first season with a young squad of guys he didn't recruit.  The following class had three kids -- two who play a lot of minutes for us and one who transferred.  Given the short recruiting window he had, I'd call that successful.  Pat's second class had four kids -- two played a lot (one of those two transferred) and two red shirted.  He also got two more transfers who started play during the season -- both provided solid minutes.  The current class adds Garner and Washington to the two red shirts.  Garner might be a starter from day one.  On deck is the 9th ranked recruiting class in the nation.  PC has done all this with little financial backing from a fine depleted AD, after losing a top recruit to the scandal (and who knows how many targets shied away too), losing Frazier to a season ending injury (though that brought him back last year) and losing a few games to some horrible calls late in games.  Anyone who doesn't think he deserves to be extended for another 2-4 years must not be paying much attention (or isn't living in reality).  We are on the verge of something we haven't seen in a while.  I don't want to start over until we at least give this opportunity a chance to play itself out.

14
Penn State Basketball / Re: Give Pat a contract extension
« on: July 17, 2014, 11:39 AM »
I believe one of Eric's main points on the subjects in the BSD article - and subsequent fan posts (551!!) - wasn't solely about Pat's performance.  ...It is/was about supporting the PSU hoops program. 

IF a coaches contract isn't at least as long as the graduation/enrollment of current players your recruiting, it could play a role in a recruits insecurity to commit to the program/coach.

There's a much bigger picture to look at beyond PC's performance - is the administration enabling Pat (or any coach) to succeed.  I copied one of Eric's posts where he listed all the B1G's coaches and the length of their contracts...

For quick reference

A quick “coach contract extension” google search yielded these results for Big Ten coaches

Indiana – Tom Crean – Through 2019-2020
Illinois – John Groce – Through 2017-2018
Iowa – Fran McCaffery – Through 2018-2019
Maryland – Mark Turgeon – Through 2018-2019 from his original 8-year deal
Michigan – John Beilein – Through 2018-2019
Michigan State – Tom Izzo – Through 2016-2017 – surprised by this one, considering the NBA came calling again. Probably already in negotiations for another one
Minnesota – Richard Pitino – Through 2018-2019 from original 6-year deal
Nebraska – Tim Miles – Through 2018-2019 from original 7-year deal
Northwestern – Chris Collins – Through 2019-2020 from original 7-year deal
Ohio State – Thad Matta – Through 2018-2019
Purdue – Matt Painter – Through 2018-2019
Rutgers – Eddie Jordan – Through 2017-2018 from original 5-year deal
Wisconsin – Bo Ryan – Through 2018-2019
Penn State – Pat Chambers – Through 2015-2016

That’s just not fair to Pat to recruit under that uncertainty. Either fire him or support him, don’t lame duck him.


Regardless of longevity AND performance - each of the coaches contracts say "I will be here when you get to campus".  Note the shortest (besides Pat's) contract is Tom Izzo's.  ...Yeah I really have been doubting his performance the past 3/4 years.  (sarcasm)



So other than Izzo, Chambers is the only coach in the conference without at least 4 years left on his current deal.  Time to get that fixed.

15
Penn State Basketball / Re: PSU hoops articles, videos, etc.
« on: July 16, 2014, 04:17 PM »
I've been doing a bit of (late) spring cleaning and stumbled upon these photos I took of our upset victory over Barry Parkhill's Virginia squad back in 1972.  They're not particularly good but I thought some people might find them interesting nonetheless.

Just to ID some of the players.

Parkhill is #40 for UVA.

#53 for PSU is Dan Tarr, #35 is Chuck Crist, #11 is Jim Dashield. 


Jim Dashield was a ferocious defender.  I seem to recall opposing guards hated going against him.  I wonder if he was guarding Parkhill that night.

Chuck Crist, as far as I can recall, is the only former PSU hoops player to have a career in the NFL.  He played defensive back for several teams.

If I remember correctly, Bill Stansfield had a tryout or two, not sure if he ever played a down or not though.

David Macklin.

Did Jordan Norwood ever play basketball at PSU? 

I'm guessing a lot of football players also played basketball way back when Lar was a kid.  Some probably played in the NFL.

16
Penn State Basketball / Re: Give Pat a contract extension
« on: July 16, 2014, 10:47 AM »
I don't have an issue with a 4 year extension with results based raises and a cheap buyout for PSU.  Having a cheap buyout is the same thing as going year to year, but gives the impression to recruits of long term security. 

I need to see more development and progress from the club before I consider a 4 year extension after 3 years of a coach who has shown promise but not delivered anything yet.


Okay, but having a cheap buyout for PSU is like not really giving him any extension.  They can fire him at any time.  It just gives the impression that he's under contract for a while longer, which helps recruiting.  So I'm not sure I understand why you'd be against it.  It wouldn't tie us to PC for any longer than we want, because it would be cheap to fire him.

17
Penn State Basketball / Re: Give Pat a contract extension
« on: July 16, 2014, 09:43 AM »
Here is the way I see it. Consider Pat a new hire that comes with a large Rolodex. He was hired to bring I'm new account (I.e. Wins). The first two years he was making calls and going out to lunches but closed no new accounts. Last year he closed a few accounts but nothing major. This year we need him to close that monster of an account.

I think he does need to show progress this year in a big way. He's got the roster depth and the bigs he has have all been in the program for at least a year. The stars should be aligning for this coming season with DJ Newbill coming into his own.

However, we can't wait for progress shown during this season to offer an extension. We either fire him now or extend him. He can't recruit for 2016 at the moment and with him pushing so hard for Joe Hampton and other 2016 players, I would think it's best if we get him two years, that way he can at least lay the foundation for the class for a new coach to take over if things with Pat don't work out.

If he's underwhelming this year and next, we can cut the ties after his 5th year (when he has 7 total with his contract) saying we gave him an actual chance. All of Ed's players are out after this season, it's all his players and he would have had at least one class coming through plus his promising 2015 class would have a year. This, to me, is giving him a chance to prove he can turn the program around.

I don't have an issue with a 4 year extension with results based raises and a cheap buyout for PSU.  Having a cheap buyout is the same thing as going year to year, but gives the impression to recruits of long term security. 

18
OT / Re: OT's GONE WILD!
« on: July 16, 2014, 07:17 AM »
With facial recognition software and social media making the world a smaller place, it might not be long til we all get pics of ourselves from total strangers.

Just found this interesting.

http://petapixel.com/2014/07/15/hidden-guys-hard-drive-6-years/?utm_source=digg&utm_medium=email

19
Penn State Basketball / Re: Give Pat a contract extension
« on: July 15, 2014, 10:26 AM »
I would give Pat a 10 year extension with an automatic 15% per year increase with large incentives built in.  The incentives should kick in for every win and even if PSU only loses by single digits, that is close enough to call a moral victory and Pat should get credit for that.  There should also be incentives tied to Ed Dechellis and his winning percentage wherever he coaches as Pat is still paying for Ed's mistakes.  Also throw in some bonus if Jerry Dunn is still in BBall as Pat should be paid if Dunn is still coaching to make up for how that is negatively affecting PSU.

And each time anyone on this board or the PSU AD mentions any of the following - NCAA Sweet 16, NIT Championship, NCAA appearances, Talor Battle, Cornley or any other significant achievement in the history of the program that was not achieved under Chambers, he should be given a 10% raise.

If he is getting raises for that crap, then he should have to buy 100 Big Macs for starving college students every time Dean Wormer mentions ED in a post on this forum.

20
OT / Re: World Cup
« on: July 14, 2014, 09:02 PM »
Personally, I don't think the Bundesliga could catch on more than the Premier League. It's way more predictable than the PL and despite it being a very good and technical league, the language barrier will deter some. However, it can be well supported and I will be thrilled to watch more of Borussia Dortmund, who imo, are the most exciting team to watch in the world at the moment that isn't one of the massive financial clubs (Bayern, Real, Barca, United, City, Chelsea, PSG).

Language barrier?  I'm sure the broadcast will be in English.

21
OT / Re: OT: PSU Football
« on: July 14, 2014, 03:36 PM »
The more I think about it, the more skeptical I get.  The helmet in the photo is #24.  Two years ago, the team wore #42 -- the same two digits, in reverse.  Maybe Nick Scott found some extra numbers lying around and decided to have some fun with us.  Booooo him if that's what he did.

That and I can't imagine, if this indeed was going to be a thing this fall, that Franklin wouldn't have drilled it into the guys to keep it a secret

I could also imagine Franklin having Scott do this to test the waters a little -- see what the reaction is.

22
OT / Re: OT: PSU Football
« on: July 14, 2014, 02:35 PM »
The more I think about it, the more skeptical I get.  The helmet in the photo is #24.  Two years ago, the team wore #42 -- the same two digits, in reverse.  Maybe Nick Scott found some extra numbers lying around and decided to have some fun with us.  Booooo him if that's what he did.

23
OT / Re: OT: PSU Football
« on: July 14, 2014, 01:48 PM »
Numbers back on the helmet? Freshman Nick Scott just tweeted a pic of his helmet

http://instagram.com/p/qcEsO6kx-f/


Sweet.  I hope so.  I always loved the numbers on the helmets.  Wish they never removed them.

24
Penn State Basketball / Re: Julian Moore
« on: July 14, 2014, 01:46 PM »
Change in the Scholarship Matrix! =  another stud adds Penn State to their list

Change in the Scholarship Matrix!# =  another stud tweets something positive while visiting Penn State

Change in the Scholarship Matrix!!! = another stud verbals to Penn State

Change in the Scholarship Matrix!!!!! 8) = another stud signs with Penn State

Change in the Scholarship Matrix!@#$%!! = another stud de-commits from Penn State

Change in the Scholarship Matrix$ = Lar goes paid subscription only


Huh?  You are combining the two matrices.  The scholarship matrix doesn't get updated without a commitment.

25
Penn State Basketball / Re: OT - Little League World Series
« on: July 14, 2014, 01:45 PM »
A few pitchers, my son included, who have command of about six pitches that they throw very well.

Six pitches?  At that age?  Yikes.  When I was 12, I had two pitches -- a changeup (my fastball), and a slower changeup.

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